Which country do you come from? In my country, women are generally treated as equals, in fact men are often dominated by them as far as I can tell. New Zealand has a very strong history of feminism. We were the first country in the world to give women the vote, and one of the first to have a woman prime minister…. My mother is a feminist.
In my country, the vast majority of men are very judgemental of men who mistreat women, and no one I know does this.
I am not saying that women are not mistreated by men. I do say that men are also mistreated by women.
I personally believe that many women use men, manipulate them emotionally, and feel that women rape emotionally.
Many women see men as interchangeable tickets to security and a good time. More often than not, if a man is incapacitated or loses his ability to work, his wife leaves him. Men are expected to always be in control, always know what to do, not to express emotion or vulnerability. they are expected to be violent if necessary and to be dominant. Women expect this of men. Even self professed feminist women. I think we are all victims of millions of years of cultural and evolutionary conditioning.
I’m not sure how we go about fixing this. Feminism has created a frame work for addressing this, which is why I am interested. Although I don’t necessarily agree with some tenets of feminism.
Gender stereotypes cut both ways.
I doubt that the vast majority of men joke about rape. But I don’t know where you come from. I am very sorry you have experienced the the things you have and I don’t make light of that. I have had times in my life when I have disliked all women because I felt I had been mistreated, and I have not had anything near happen to me what has happened to you.
But I do understand that it becomes difficult to not judge all people because of ones experiences.
I think its called generalisation.
I have always wanted an equal, a woman who takes as much responsibility as I do and doesn’t expect me to handle everything and always know what to do. Who doesn’t fall for the same old alpha- male crap.
This is pretty hard to find.
Even as I write this I feel compelled to say ” I can do Alpha Male” I can be very masculine. But why the should I modify my behaviour to fit other peoples expectations?
I am not a feminist. But I do support many aspects of what feminism fights for, and feminism provides far more resources on gender issues than any other heading.
Its obvious that my issues are not the same or indeed as serious as yours.
They are still important to me though.
largely in as much as trying to understand what it means to be male considering what some men do, what is expected of us by women, and the changing expectations of society.
Thanks again for the reply,..
Quinn
I have been following this conversation for some time now and I am curious.
Why would members of the ‘pick-up-artist’ community feel a need to seek feminists’ approval for their activities? Couldn’t they just proceed as they see fit and ignore feminists’ opinions?
Whats a pick up artist? Its not just feminists aproval that people seek its aproval full stop isnt it?.. ie they want to know that they are good peope or at least not “bad” people…. Feminist movement is one of those that kind of stakes out the finer points of morality, or at least discusses them , and I love it for that….
To be honest, I’ve been thinking about this, which is a good thing… thats why I’m interested in this site… because I want to learn…which may mean admitting that Im wrong or have mis understood something…
and on the whole joking about rape thing…. yes there are constant jokes about rape…. when I think about it…. like when your woeking and things get really really busy you might joke that you and your workmates got “bent over the bench” …. and yeah there are 1 or 2 jokes mentione now and then, and I am guilty of this… about men and women… though the one about femal rape is way more taboo…. and to be honest its actually not neccesarily rape… its more like a woman consenting to have sex with more than one man… And I wont mention it….. its one of those lines thats only “funny” because it is So SO SO Wrong…..
Its a nevous laughter… in the same way that people joke about suicide bombers, I mean that is NOT funny…. but in some way… joking about serious and often disturbing things can be a relief from always walking the sort of social tight rope of political correctness…… along with not being egotistical, not being rude, not being stupid, being relatively up to date cultured, with the times etc… It kind of gets tiring, which is why I think the guilty pleasure of an incredibly innapropriate joke can be so appealing. But I dont think anyone would ever joke about somebody, as in an actual person, being raped. Never. its not funny. its sick.
And maybe all jokes of this nature are sick…. about all sorts of things. Jokes about guys getting “butt raped” are so common….. but nobody ever really thinks thats so bad….
I dont know… but I had to admit, yup its true, there are jokes about rape. And I know one. And I’d hate to think what somebody would feel having had that done to them would feel reading about it…
Theres a lot of jokes about gay people too in m famil, and I often worried that if one us really was gay it would be terrible…. I think we all know in the long run that we love each other enough that of cours we would accept each other, no matter what….
But does that make it okay?
I guess when I mean men ( and women ) dont joke about rape…. I mean nobody finds the idea of someone actually being raped funny. It absolutely horrendous. Its awful. If that happened to any woman i my family, or much more unlikely any man n my family, although my dad actually was nearly when he was young….
I’d want to kill who ever was responsible. I would. Id go to jail for it. I understand the anger. I feel like that about it too. Humour is weird……. isnt it… sometimes it just doesnt make sense.